Smotrich: "Netanyahu's decision is a mistake, we need to storm Gaza" | An in-depth interview

The chairman of Religious Zionism, Finance Minister and Cabinet member Bezalel Smotrich visited the Srugim Studio and gave an extensive interview in which he presented his firm position regarding returning to intensive fighting in the Gaza Strip and delivered an unequivocal message to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that without returning to fighting, the government has no right to exist.

In addition, Minister Smotrich addressed the controversy surrounding the dismissal of the Shin Bet head and sharply attacked the Supreme Court: "Ronen Bar and the Supreme Court have irresponsibly created a dangerous reality for Israel's security."

The Religious Zionism chairman also presented his complete position regarding the crisis with the ultra-Orthodox on the draft law and the criticism he receives on the issue from within the sector, claiming: "The anger towards our Haredi brothers who don't understand the magnitude of the hour is difficult, but anger is not a work plan and I'm telling the people who sent me, we will be judged by actions."

"Already in October 2023 we talked about two years of fighting"

We are about a year and a half after the start of the war, currently there are still 59 hostages in Hamas captivity in Gaza, the Hamas terrorist organization has still not been defeated, neither militarily nor governmentally. What are you doing wrong?

"First of all, we are conducting a war on seven fronts, I suggest not to forget that. We are after decades of a concept of fake quiet and containment, and the result is many monsters forming and growing on our fences in the north and south and in Judea and Samaria, and I think the achievements in all war arenas are good achievements."

"In Gaza, there were very, very, very good military achievements, but it takes time. Gaza was built as a city of terror for many years, you know, all the underground infrastructure we destroyed in these year and a half, with tens of thousands of tons of explosives we're dropping there, is about 25% of the tunnels there. It's a city that is all terror infrastructure from above, all terror infrastructure from below, built over many years, the IDF never planned to conquer it and didn't build plans for it, I remind you, we entered the war with a concept of a small and smart army, and that affects many things."

Did you think that at this point in the war this would be the situation in Gaza? "Yes, the army already at the end of October 2023 talked about two years of fighting, don't be alarmed by this. We changed the equation, turned the tables, restored the relative advantage, we came and said there's no such thing anymore as civilian population as human shields. If terror operates from within a civilian population, we evacuate the population so it won't be harmed and destroy the terror infrastructure, that's how we do it in Gaza, that's how we did it in the north, we almost erased entire villages that simply served as terror infrastructure, that's what we're doing today in the West Bank in refugee camps, simply evacuating population, taking control of the area, destroying everything that needs to be destroyed, and these are processes that take time."

"The severe mistake in Gaza that I've been warning about since December 2023, is the issue of managing the civilian effort. On one hand we sent our heroic fighters to achieve military results, but it's like pouring water on a fire and with the other hand pouring fuel on it, because you bring in logistical aid to Hamas, Hamas takes control of it, makes money from it, and from that it pays money to its operatives, and to all its apparatus."

"It's time to storm Gaza"

But who is responsible for this mistake? In the end, you are the political echelon that decides: "The political echelon gave very clear instructions on this matter, Gallant and then the previous Chief of Staff, completely refused to deal with it, again I warned about this, in writing and verbally within the Cabinet and outside it. You're right, my criticism is also of the Prime Minister, and maybe I'm also not okay that I didn't flip the table. I bear responsibility, but in the end I have seven mandates, I'm not the Prime Minister and I don't run the government alone."

"This issue has now ended, because based on my demand, an explicit decision was made in the Cabinet that instructs the army to prepare for the renewal of fighting in a way that humanitarian aid does not reach Hamas. And there were also a whole series of discussions about exactly how to do this, I am convinced that it will work differently."

Smotrich continues to elaborate on the heated discussion that took place this week in the Cabinet where he confronted the Chief of Staff: "There was a difficult discussion yesterday in the Cabinet, it turns out that the army dragged its feet and still isn't ready for this, I think there is clarity today from end to end on this issue. There wasn't, by the way, a single minister who disagreed with me in the Cabinet on this matter, including the Prime Minister, including the Defense Minister, humanitarian aid will not enter in a way that it reaches Hamas, period, this is a red line."

"Now with God's help we will renew the war, and I think it should be quick. And this is also criticism I have, after all my agreement with the PM was that I would not quit the government, despite the fact that for me the deal was a hippopotamus to swallow, I said I'm staying because for me the ultimate goal was and remains to fully realize the war's objectives, the destruction of Hamas and the return of the hostages. I want to ensure that we return to fighting."

"I think the decision of the PM and Cohen is a mistake, we need to make a big move in Gaza"

Minister Smotrich continues and says: "The Chief of Staff asked for a month to get organized and we said okay and we'll use it to exhaust and get out as many hostages as possible, but there's a limit to how long this can be dragged out, there isn't an unlimited clock, I think we need to start storming Gaza, the army has built a plan to attack with 6 divisions on the Gaza Strip at once with all force."

Who is preventing you from doing this? "The Prime Minister and the Defense Minister decided that they are continuing to exhaust the chance for negotiations with Hamas and they defined what is being done now in the Gaza Strip as an effort to apply pressure on Hamas to return to the negotiating table. I think this is a mistake, there is no chance to return hostages this way. After all, Hamas will only return hostages if it feels that you are threatening its survival. When you tell it in advance, I'm not threatening only applying pressure, anyway it won't succeed."

"We need to go for the big move, we need to dismantle Hamas, we can win, it's the best chance to bring back the hostages, we still have 21 hostages alive, all need to be returned to Israel for burial, but the level of urgency is life, that's the most urgent thing, it won't happen without military pressure that isn't a game, that comes to completely destroy Hamas."

"I will tell you, one more point that becomes very clear to me for the critical junction we are at. For almost 40 years, the left has been echoing the lie that there is no military solution to terror and if there is no military solution to terror. Then there is no choice, we have to go to withdrawals and surrender and hide behind walls and fences, Palestinian state, Oslo, and they always asked the right, what is your alternative? And now we got an opportunity to show that it's possible to win. A right-wing government, a friendly administration in the White House, now the excuses are over, there's no Biden, there's Trump who gives us full backing, there's a right-wing government, there's no more Gallant, and no Eisenkot and Gantz."

"I think we can finally show the people of Israel that it's possible to defeat terror, and consequently it's possible to defeat terror in the West Bank, it's possible to defeat terror in Lebanon, enough with surrender and concessions, and the long-term Oslo conception. God forbid. If we don't realize this thing then the statement will be here the left was right even when the right is in power it doesn't succeed and this is a super strategic existential event for the security and future of the State of Israel in all arenas."

"If we don't go to this place, this government has no right to exist"

You committed after the last deal that the IDF would return to fighting differently, without humanitarian aid and with powerful fighting, real military pressure on Hamas. Right now that's not happening and you said here yourself, no more excuses! Could it be that you will quit the government over this?

"I stayed in the government and in my eyes the right of existence for the government headed by Netanyahu is to ensure that the terrible disaster that happened on our watch turns into a great achievement and a great victory and as I said, then radiates to all other arenas. The moment I feel that we are not going to this place, this government has no right to exist."

How much time will you give for this to happen? Because right now several months have passed since the end of the deal.

"I don't like to threaten and I certainly don't do it in studios and I've also said all along, I'm not with my hand on the stopwatch. When the Chief of Staff came and asked for a few weeks to get organized, then okay. If you ask me? This is the time, and I'm saying this to the PM, I met him on Passover eve, twice during the intermediate days, I met him yesterday. I am determined to lead a move within the Cabinet where the army will receive an order to storm Gaza, here and now with all force, to win, to destroy Hamas, we will establish military rule in Gaza, we will handle humanitarian aid in a way that it in no way reaches Hamas and we will implement the Trump plan."

"The Prime Minister updated us that in his conversation with President Trump, the President reiterated the commitment and he believes that this is the right solution, that you can't leave two million anti-Semitic Nazis who wake up every morning wanting to slaughter, burn and rape every Jew, you can't leave them a meter from our fence. We will not leave Hamas in Gaza so that it will be possible to live in Sderot, in Netivot, in Ofakim, in Ashkelon, in the communities, in the kibbutzim, in security, in a sense of security."

In the end there are elements in the government, whether it's Ben Gvir or the ultra-Orthodox, who had things that were important, and they gave Netanyahu ultimatums, why don't you do that for the thing that you define as the most important thing?

"I seem to be succeeding so far in advancing what I think is right and good. I don't want to crown myself, I certainly don't want to compare it to others, but my influence on the war is very big in all arenas. I think I know how to achieve good results, and I have a good enough relationship with the Prime Minister, he knows what my red lines are, I think that behavior where all day people go around studios and scatter threats, that's not the way to influence and change."

"Everyone understands that the reason I stayed in the government is to keep my hand on the wheel and ensure that we return to war and read my lips, it will happen with God's help and otherwise there is no right for this government."

We won't see you setting a deadline for the Prime Minister on this issue?

"If I set it I will do it in the closed room as is appropriate in relationships between partners and between a Finance Minister and a Prime Minister, if I decide that this government has completed its path, again, because it is missing its justification for existence and causing great damage, you will know about it."

"Ronen Bar is personally responsible for the greatest disaster in the history of the State of Israel"

On another issue, in recent weeks there has been a controversy surrounding the dismissal of the Shin Bet head, yesterday a discussion was held in the Cabinet, the Shin Bet head arrived and you left while he was speaking, why did you do that? "There are two problems, one, the man is personally and directly responsible for the greatest disaster in the history of the State of Israel, I didn't say he is guilty God forbid, he is also not responsible alone, but he is directly responsible. The one who heads the intelligence organization that needs to provide the warning, slept for three years and allowed Hamas to carry out the greatest strategic deception that was ever here."

"He received indications on the night between October 6th and 7th, interpreted them incorrectly and this is the ABCs of taking responsibility, why are you already a year and a half holding onto the horns of the altar?"

"In addition, there is no trust between the Prime Minister, and by the way between most Cabinet members, and the Shin Bet head and this is a product of disagreements that have emerged over time, certainly in recent months. In the end, the ceasefire was created, it was clear that there is some stage here where one chapter in the war ended, going to the second stage, the Chief of Staff understood this perfectly, vacated his position, Ronen Bar should have done the same thing."

"The position of the Shin Bet head is no longer relevant"

Smotrich continues his attack on Bar and claims: "He is dragging us to a bad place and he is dragging the Shin Bet to a bad place. It's an injustice to so many good and professional people in the Shin Bet. It's a holy organization that does exceptional work. And now Ronen has dragged this organization against its will into a public storm, into a political dispute, into a system of lost trust. And indeed you see that when it enters a personal event, then judgment becomes distorted, then you suddenly see selective enforcement, and you see the use of Shin Bet tools just because someone leaked information that embarrasses Ronen Bar. This is a serious mistake. And above this the Supreme Court, excuse me for saying, is running a Saturday afternoon parliament, not conducting a legal discussion."

"What's the relevance of all the relations between the Prime Minister and the Shin Bet head? After all, who is authorized to remove the Shin Bet head from his position, it's the government, it's not the Prime Minister and then the Supreme Court comes, and tries to force us to work with a Shin Bet head and here I want to explain the limitations of power. The law can impose technique and not essence. So it forced us and the Shin Bet head still receives a salary and has a sign but you can't force me to trust him and listen to him willingly to hear what he says and take his opinion into account."

But what exactly is the strategy? As a Cabinet do you no longer need to hear the Shin Bet's position?

"No, his position is not relevant, I don't appreciate his opinion, I don't trust his reading of reality. The Shin Bet head comes and gives his opinion. We don't really take him into account, Ronen Bar and the Supreme Court have irresponsibly created a dangerous reality for Israel's security."

"I hope that the Supreme Court will come to its senses as quickly as possible and decide that the government that bears responsibility has the authority in its hands and is allowed to remove a Shin Bet head from his position. The Supreme Court is not supposed to intervene in this, what is it relevant to it at all. I very much hope that this event is going to end."

"I'm telling my friends in the coalition in the party, enough with playing politics on the draft issue"

Earlier today your party colleague Minister Sofer announced that he will not support the draft law if there is no change in the policy of the ultra-Orthodox leadership. Is this also your position and the party's position?

"I don't want to discuss an egg that hasn't been born, we are determined to bring a historic change after 76 years soon, and to integrate our ultra-Orthodox brothers in the very important military effort, in this great mitzvah. The ministry. The proof that we are determined is that there is still no law. I don't need Ophir Sofer to climb trees and launch threats."

Were you angry with him about this statement?

"No I'm not angry with him I just don't understand what the point is. The Prime Minister and the Defense Minister, and your humble servant, and the Government Secretary and the Chairman of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee together with the ultra-Orthodox are working on it. By the way, they also understand it, it's difficult for them, it's complex for them. It's an ideological change, it's a mental change, it's a sociological change. They are justifiably afraid of being corrupted in the army. Come on, they didn't grow up like you and me and receive an education for integration from age zero, and they don't have supporting frameworks, hesder yeshivas, preparatory programs and so on. We need to build it. It's a process."

"I'm not telling you that all the ultra-Orthodox will enlist tomorrow morning but I am telling you that if the ultra-Orthodox leadership actively votes in a few weeks for a law that says 50% will enlist within 7 years with sanctions that enforce it, that's a revolution. This will lead to ultra-Orthodox enlistment."

"Now, the army needs to open many frameworks, of many types, at many ages, and ensure the ultra-Orthodox the ability to maintain their way of life and beliefs. The ultra-Orthodox will only enlist if they enlist ultra-Orthodox and leave ultra-Orthodox. God forbid, if they are corrupted according to their view within the army, this thing will create a crisis of trust."

"I think the only way to achieve this is with agreement. The army sent 19,000 draft notices and about 200 enlisted. I think if it will be with agreement, it will succeed. Again, in a process, gradual, with understanding that this is a very difficult change for the ultra-Orthodox, it's not an easy thing. And we don't intend to give up, we are determined to also lead a dramatic change in this matter, and again we don't need moral preaching, not from Kaplanists and not from this."

"I'm also telling my friends in the coalition and my friends in the party. Enough with playing politics and enough with climbing trees. All of us together, substantively, in work, in stubbornness but in dialogue and as partners do even when there are disagreements in order to reach a solution and also to preserve the government. After all, we want to draft the ultra-Orthodox because we need them in the army because we need a big army and partly we want to win so what, so now we'll fight like children and dismantle a government and stop the war."

"The anger is justified and right but anger is not a work plan"

You talked about moral preaching but in the end there is real criticism from within your sector, from within the sector you represent that really enlisted en masse for the war and there is no dispute about its contribution, your relative also fell in this war and many casualties from the sector fell and there is criticism of you that you don't represent them enough, that you don't help them that more people bear the burden.

"I am aware of this criticism. I understand it, I very much understand where it comes from. I have a son, three brothers, two brothers-in-law, twelve nephews and nieces, all in the army and in reserves, hundreds of days in this war. Left wife and children and livelihood on holidays, on Sabbaths, in winter, in summer."

"As you said I also lost a cousin like a brother to me, Amishar Ben David, may God avenge his blood, in this war and the anger is justified, the anger towards our ultra-Orthodox brothers who don't understand the magnitude of the hour, is difficult, but anger is not a work plan and I'm telling the people who sent me, we will be judged by actions."

"There are statements that I don't accept, there are statements that say they won't enlist and won't receive, I want them to enlist and receive, I don't want to fight with the ultra-Orthodox, I want to help them, slowly slowly integrate into the army, and then integrate into the job market, and take responsibility for all areas of activity in the State of Israel."

"Why can we and they can't? It's infuriating"

"Anger can be the most justified in the world and it's hard to deal with it, because it's gut, it's emotion, it's really infuriating. You know, I sometimes leave funerals and you really see righteous people, saints of the highest order, scholars, and you say to yourself, why can we and they can't, it's so infuriating and then you take a deep breath and say yes that's the truth but it's a process."

"We as Religious Zionism have a well-known expression - 'patience of redemption', how did we suddenly lose it? We have patience for our secular brothers, in processes, we have patience for arguments between right and left, how did we suddenly lose it here? These are complex processes, difficult challenges, very urgent. But precisely because it's urgent we need to succeed, and if you fight with the ultra-Orthodox, and push them into a corner, and attack them, you will cause the opposite process, they will only withdraw more inward and go backward, it won't work."

"Whoever thinks it will work by force, okay I respect his opinion but I think differently from him in reality, I want to reach exactly the same result, I want to succeed, I don't want to fight, and I think the way to succeed is in dialogue and agreement, and we will be judged by results as I said."

But do you have any red line on the issue? Is there a law you won't support, a law without personal sanctions, will you support it?

"It's pointless to talk again about an egg that hasn't been born, because the ultra-Orthodox are willing to have sanctions, that's not the discussion. There will be sanctions but that's not the main thing. The main thing is the declaration. That's the revolution, that the ultra-Orthodox vote in favor, give legitimacy to enlistment. Trust me, there are many ultra-Orthodox who don't study, and we can enlist them, and we'll make great efforts here and succeed in this. That's what's important, to succeed, not to fight, not to starve, and not to be right and angry, but to be smart and successful."

"Not worried about the polls, we are creating revolutions"

You are a senior minister at the center of decision-making in the State of Israel, you and your fellow ministers have a lot of influence, but the polls don't flatter you, you're in a bad situation in the polls, how do you explain this?

"According to the polls, Shimon Peres is Prime Minister 10 times, and Netanyahu never."

So you're not worried about it? "No. You know what I haven't been dealing with politics since the war started. From the first day of the war I told myself, that my biological brothers and brothers in the broader sense, are risking their lives, I only make the right decisions."

"I mainly work quietly and deliver results, there is hardly a party within the coalition that fulfills its complete set of values like our party, I think Religious Zionism hasn't had a term with so much influence in security, in society in economy, in settlement. We are creating revolutions. Trust me, we'll reach elections and market to Religious Zionism and to the people of Israel all our great work."

"I think I am fulfilling one hundred percent the world of values and needs of those who sent me. The majority, I'm currently trying to do quietly, to be focused mainly on doing, the time will come to explain to the public. I'm not worried because I don't have ambitions, it's maybe a disadvantage in me. I work, do something that is right and good, and in the end if there are enough people who think I'm doing it well, and want me to continue to represent them and carry their truth and their values and implement it in the test of results, I will do it. And if not, better people than me will come, the cemeteries are already full of people who thought they were irreplaceable."